Two-Sided table

Finally, I managed to code the two sided-table.

It was so much more difficult than I expected! At first I thought it would be a relatively simple change (with some impacts, but not at too many places). After the obvious core changes, everything went wrong. There’s so much things related to card layout on the table: the drag-and-drop feedbacks, the targetting arrows, the table auto-fit when moving cards…

But after a lot of hard coding, here it is:


As you can see, the two-sided table is an opt-in feature. You can continue to play the same way you do now and the same way Octgn 1 always worked. Or you can choose to use the 2-sided table. The host is the only one, who can change those options and they affect everyone. If you check the “use 2-sided table” checkbox, you’d notice A and B boxes appears on the players. You can click on those to change your sides. There’s really no use for them in a 2 players game, but you can make your teams when there’s 3+ players.

So how does it work anyway? First the table is flipped so that your cards are always at the bottom of the screen. Second, the table has a virtual “split” in the middle. Everything, which is on the top half of the table is flipped as well. The result is this real-life looking layout:


Everything has been updated to provide correct feedback, especially the drag-and-drop “ghost”.

When can you grab the goods?

This week-end, most probably. Because this was a difficult change with a high-impact on the code base, I want to do some additional tests this week before publishing the update.

Stay tuned!

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25 Comments on “Two-Sided table”

  1. Oen Says:


    There will probably be bugs, but looks great.

    Is there any way to have a line to help show where the table splits? My only concern with the table auto resizing the split might not be in the middle vertically if the table resizes like I think it will.


  2. Kurt Says:

    Looks good.

    Now if only we can get the feature added where you can look at top X of life deck. =)

  3. Makkert Says:

    I’m a little confused to be honest on this feature.

    It’s great that one is always at the bottom of the screen. But while I see the ‘real life’ approach in the fact that the opponent’s cards are flipped, is it not more easy-to-use if the cards of the opponent(s) aren’t flipped upside down?

    To me, it seems one of the advantages of online play that i don’t have to squeeze my eyes to see what is on the other side of the table.

    ~ with love,


  4. Kurt Says:

    I agree with that. I think it would be better if the cards were still facing me.

  5. Oen Says:

    I guess it would be better. Still have all the cards facing you, but each person has a different view.

    This seems more real, but I guess refinement would be better later on.

    I am still curious about an avatar setting.

  6. Gaspare Says:

    I think it has been done because some games require it to be 100% playable on octgn2.
    By the way, it is an option, if you dont like it you just dont use it 🙂

  7. Kurt Says:

    Well I think we can say we all like the option… just not the view of the cards.

  8. brinelol Says:

    I’m sure the enlarged card that pops up when you hover over the card will be right-side up, so it shouldn’t be THAT big a problem..

  9. Oen Says:

    Ah.. good point brinelol.

  10. jods rules Says:

    It’s a needed changed to more easily organize multiplayer games. With many players, it can be confusing which cards are on your team and which on your opponents team. This way, you always know which cards belong to your opponent’s side.

    Great job jods.

    I think OCTGN is finally at the point that people can start using it instead of Magic Workstation.

    Now the main thing left to do is get more publicity for the game, get the mws community to use it as well.

    P.S: Good news, OCTGN 2.0 works perfectly out of box with the latest beta release of Windows 7. You don’t even need to install .net, it works out of box, and it’s crazy fast.

  11. BoB Says:

    I dont think publicity would be good at this time considering what wizards have done to magic league?

    And is the update done yet? Just asking.

  12. brinelol Says:

    the problem with magic league was that it basically advertised as a free alternative to MTGO, which to be fair, wizards had every right to go after. With OCTGN, the only real connection with Magic is that you can download (completely optional) magic game and set files. OCTGN can be advertised as a better alternative to magic workstation, but it can’t be advertised as a better alternative to MTGO.

  13. jods Says:

    Lots of reactions…

    – This new layout is an option, so if you don’t like it you can still play with the current one.

    – Some people asked for inverted cards on the table because 1. it give a real-life feeling; and 2. some games require the card being flipped.

    – Of course, the zoomed card is never flipped.

    – Maybe one day I’ll add an option so that everybody plays at the bottom of the screen, but with all cards upwards. The only benefit of this layout is that the distance between your hand and your cards is smaller. This is good, but there are more important things to do right now.

    – Before truely being able to play Magic games, I think there’s still one or two features missing. Mostly being able to view/manipulate top N cards from piles (that’s coming next).

  14. Ed Says:

    I like the option. Besides if you hover over a card you see its picture on the top right corner.

    OCTGN should have the text for action cards be justified right when it’s the game that is talking. for example: “unreal_ed moves ‘Nesmend Darkbreaker’ to Table” should be justified right so that I know instantly that this is text I can skip because I know what I played. It should also include symbols.

    For example: Moving a card on your deck should say: unreal_ed moves ‘Nesmend Darkbreaker’ to ‘library icon’. Also, maybe the name should be replaced by a P1 icon. You would always be the P1 and the opponent would be P2. Images make it easier to read quickly what has happened.

  15. Ed Says:

    Also, OCTGN needs to be faster at putting markers on cards. As it is right now (opening a menu…) it is way too long for games like WoW TCG.

  16. Oen Says:

    Ed, but it is playable. 🙂

  17. jods Says:

    Those are good comments Ed.

    There actually is something in place to help you quickly see what’s important and what’s not in the chat. The actions are in normal weight, while chat is bold. Moreover your actions (and chat) are in gray, everybody else is black.

    I’d like to be able to provide some support for symbols (e.g. cost symbols like mana in MtG). But I haven’t come up with a design (speaking about code and game files here, not visual) yet. I’m not sure though if [P1] moves ‘xyz’ to [LIB] doesn’t get too cryptic when there are tons of those… I should try and see.

    Regarding markers I have some good ideas to address this problem (I think). But currently, if your game uses a lot of markers, do you know that:
    – you can add or remove markers of a kind by placing the mouse over the markers and then hitting the plus or minus key on your numeric keypad.
    – you can move a marker from one card to another by drag-and-drop?
    – if you hold the Shift key down when starting the drag, you take all markers of one kind.
    – if you hold the Alt key when dropping you don’t move the markers but actually create a copy.

    So, once you have one marker ‘X’ in play (created with the popup window), you can copy on any card in play just by drag-and-drop. You don’t need to open the window again.

  18. kersh173 Says:

    Hey guys, I’d just like to say great job with the latest round of updates.

    Also, just a couple of questions: is there currently or in the works a way to move a card to the table and keep it ‘face down’ the entire time so that when doing something like playing a morph creature in Magic your opponents can’t see what it is?

    Last, has anyone been able to release all of the rest of the sets outside of standard for OTCGN2 yet?

  19. jods Says:

    There has always been a way to move a card face down: hold the Shift key down before dropping the card.

  20. Kurt Says:

    Regarding the Markers, I’d like to see it possible to remove them faster. For my game we use the markers to determine how many power stages you are above 0 and it goes up to 10. To remove them it’s kinda annoying having to hit the – key several times. For MWS there was a feature where you would just set the amount in the popup box and that’s it. So if lets say someone did 10 damage to you (which brings you to 0) you can just set the amount to 0 in the popup box and the markers are gone.

    Also it would be great if there was a feature where we can set notes on cards. =) There is a few cards in my game where when you play a card you name a card. Whatever card you name your opponenet can’t play that card while the card you played is in play. So players would just set a note on the card, so everyone remembers what that person named.

  21. jods Says:

    Annotating cards is definitively something we need.

    Here’s a tip: you can remove markers by dragging them from the card to the table. Use the Shift key when taking them to take them all. That should be efficient enough in your case.
    Editing the number on the card would indeed be a nice bonus…

  22. Kurt Says:

    Yeah I know all of those features, but it just seems too complicated for someone trying to learn the program. I think the feature you have now is nice, but if there was a way for a more simpler addon to counters that would be great as well. Like leave what you have now… but have another option where the user just right clicks the card and selects “Add Counter”, it then asks you in a small box how many counters you want, and that’s it. Just something faster for users who don’t care what color the counters are etc., and gets right to the point. =)

  23. brinelol Says:

    it’d be neat if instead of having different colored markers, you could have custom images for the markers. Kinda like how you can have custom symbols for the different groups (hand, deck, RFG, etc).

  24. jods Says:

    You can, brinelol. This has been in place since the introduction of markers. Each set can define any number of specific markers.

    There was a picture of this in a very old post (25/11/2006):

  25. brinelol Says:

    oh neat, didn’t even notice that. Thanks!

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