Collapsed groups

Most games use several groups, some of which you really don’t need that often. That’s why in OCTGN 1.x there was the possibility to show/hide some piles. I’ve added this feature to O2, although a group is never completely hidden, I’d rather say it is collapsed.

See the two blocks on the right of my piles? Those are my collapsed piles. When the mouse is over a pile, a small arrow appears at the bottom and clicking on it collapses the pile (note there’s no arrow visible on my graveyard). Simply clicking on a collapsed pile restores it to normal. There’s an animation going from/to the collapsed state, so that it feels very natural.

The collapsed piles are still functionnal. You can drop cards on them. You can right-click them and perform an action, or simply see their contents in a popup window like regular groups. So there are very few differences between an expanded and collapsed pile (except seeing the top card, being able to move a card to the bottom, and the commodity of having a bigger drop target; hopefully another expanded-only feature will appear in beta 1). I even expect people playing games with a very large number of cards in hand to play with all piles collapsed.

In addition to that I’ve killed one feature from my alpha 2 list. I don’t feel it was really required and other new ideas have roughly the same use-cases. Maybe the killed feature will be in the final release, but I’m not even sure of that. The new ideas will be in beta 1 though (that is: after alpha 2). So the feature list for alpha 2 is down to one (1) single feature! woot?

The last feature is token creation. It’s not hard at all, but it requires a bit of work on new GUI elements and game definitions. So it may take a bit of time. Actually, to haste the release of alpha 2, I think I may ship without tokens. I can add them later as they aren’t required to play a lot of cards. We’ll see…

I can feel the excitement growing! I have to tell you that having all features completed doesn’t mean I’m ready to put the binaries online. (But it surely means I’ll put it online soon.) There are a few things I want to take care of for alpha 2. This post is already very long, so more about this next week!

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27 Comments on “Collapsed groups”

  1. Aggersborg Says:

    Great job – I say take time and do the token thing! 🙂

  2. LTG Says:

    If it’s just the Alpha, then don’t worry about tokens.

    Once you do start coding the tokens, I hope you can make the adding of tokens a whole lot easier. That was a huge confusing thing in O1.

  3. Daidoji Says:

    Considering the frequency of updates, I don’t mind waiting another week or so for tokens.

    As an addendum to Tokens I suggest having some kind game pieces box that all players can have access to. Damage tokens, board game pieces, money, etc.

    You could achieve the same thing with a revealed dealer deck I suppose, Taking advantage of the alpha channel on card images you could at least simulate board game pieces.

  4. Kirb Says:

    I agree with Daidoji, damage tokens and counters/board game pieces/etc would be fantastic.

    You’re doing a wonderful job, keep up the good work. I’m quite excited.

  5. jods Says:

    @Daidoji and Kirb:

    “damage tokens and counters” are already in the alpha 1 build 😉 (Although not accessible in the Blue Moon game). It goes way back to there:

    https://octgndev.wordpress.com/2006/11/25/adding-markers/
    https://octgndev.wordpress.com/2006/12/03/moving-markers/

    (The functionnality needs a bit of fixing, though)

    This doesn’t fill the “board game pieces” category. I would point out that OCTGN is foremost made to play card games, so everything related to board games (although I love several of those) is going straight to the bottom of my endless “todo” list.

  6. Aggersborg Says:

    Humm I guess token can wait 🙂 I cant remember if I already suggested or it is already one tha way in the next realease. Is it possible to make a way to up and down the creatures power and toughness? Like “ctrl”+”+/-” for power and “alt”+”+/-” for toughness. I have learnd that it is the way it is done in MWS and it is realy convinient (sorry bad spelling – easy).

  7. Matthew Says:

    In addition to what Aggersborg suggested above having the system calculate the total attack power of all tapped to attack creatures would also be convenient.

  8. Gaspare Says:

    I think those are secondary things that could be added after we have a first “magic playable” release to test. The first thing we should focus is finding eventual bugs in order to correct them in future releases, among with the addition of eventual new options…

    By the way, the suggestion made by aggersborg would semplificate very much playing ^^

    Thanks for all the effort put into this project jods, we all are waiting impatiently 😀

  9. Kempeth Says:

    @Matthew: Such thing probably will be part of the game module anyway and not part of the client itself as OCTGN has no concept of attack power… If you take a look at the BlueMoon game file you can see that there already are some calculations inside…

  10. jods Says:

    You have to remember that although the recent screenshots depict Magic – isn’t it the father of all CCGs? – OCTGN is not made to play Magic.

    So any feature to be added to the OCTGN needs to be presented in a “neutral” way. I am NOT adding features specifically tied to one game.

    Summing the “power” attribute of attacking cards would be quite doable in a game-specific script and could be displayed in the chat log. To be useful, one would have to be able to define/modify the power of the cards in play. And I don’t quite see how this would work in the grand scheme of things… So until this gets a bit more fleshed out, it is postponed 😉

  11. Aggersborg Says:

    I dont feel Summing the “power” is apropiate to A al game CCG. But Power and thoughness abillity is like different counter to me. See it as placeing counter diffent plases on the cards. Each card has do be databased with power and thoughness though.

    As for you comment for magic is bieng that father of CCG-games. I do not think so, but i know that many is seeing forward to use OCTGN 2 as theier prifered online Magic platform – that is why it is importen to have “counters” 🙂 for power and thoughness.

  12. Kempeth Says:

    In the BlueMoon module you can see how the game defines several properties of the card. Power and Toughness will be two of them for magic.

    I wonder though if you can specify modifyable states to the cards and if it’s possible for some cards to have properties other cards don’t have…

  13. Aggersborg Says:

    They can have a empty or 0 propertie I guess. But let hear what jods says.

  14. Indy Says:

    I would not recommend adding any MtG specific functionality to O2 (if it supports external scripting at some point, then scripts can be written to create custom MtG functions).

    As this is a table top simulator, just use counters to to +/- creature attributes (just like in real life). Even though MtG may be the single largest CCG, the sum of all the non-MtG players and games probably is quite a bit larger than we appreciate.

    From experience, trying to force non-MtG games into a very rigid MtG database is not fun, and leaves a lot to be desired. Keep O2 neutral!

  15. Aggersborg Says:

    Ass I sayed you can judt put counter (as number counters) on different plases on tne cards. I have to say I diagree with Indy in saying that power/thoughness counter make O2 a – magic table top simulator. I do not see it as a problem that the database thas empty cells for some cardsgames and number in other card games! I fell that is is a very importen to make counters for “power and thoughness” and/or a places for loyalitycounter for planeswalkers.

    Maybe is is possible to make two different counters in the buttom right and one in the other corners – maybe even one in the middle on each side.

  16. Jods >> Superman Says:

    This is so freaking awesome. I can’t wait. Screw tokens. I want to play Mtg on OCTGN alpha 2 finally. Gimme gimme gimme. 🙂

  17. Jods >> Superman Says:

    Oh yeah, when this is released, should we check on thepiratebay.org jods to get a package of octgn with the mtg module and all the card pics prepackaged and preinstalled.

  18. Indy Says:

    As far as I can tell there is no formal card “database” with O2. From my looking at the file system & structure decks and game defs are essentially in XML format, which means adding power and toughness as explicit card parameters would be at the discretion of the game developer.

    Personally I’d like to see ALL of the game specific stuff handled by a community of modders (as a collective I’m sure we could create a really good MtG game file that has lots of MtG specific bells & whistles). In theory (I think), you could create your own custom game file to implement your own functionality (and still compete against someone with their own game file).

    Jods: what tools or features will be available for us to “import” or add new game defs in Alpha 2? I’m really looking forward to playing with my own game def files.

  19. Kempeth Says:

    I don’t want to rush you, but do you have any estimated on when the next release might be?

    I’m planning an online tournament and judging by the last release and what we have seen in the blog here even an incomplete alpha2 would be less quirky than those other programs. So I try to gauge if I can make game module in time for the tournament or not…

  20. Elratauru Says:

    Well, awesome work ’bout features, and about being neutral with O2, that’ll be the best for all TCG, I mean, if someone want to play Pokemon, Yugioh, WoW, or Magic tgcs its ok, just play fine.

    Mmm about the tokens… dont rush about that, take your time to do them, remember that tokens in magic are separated in color, and type of creature… so you can make some contextual menu in the Right clic like: Add token –> Green –> Saproling and then you define the power and toughness of the token. (This is only an idea for tokens)

    And about releasing the bin, take all the time you need… If you need to fix bugs, that is diferent, and we can help u testing.

    Thanks, Elratauru.

  21. jods Says:

    @Aggersborg:
    If MtG isn’t the father of all CCG, in your opinion which game is? I think it’s one of the first CCG created – if not the first. And it’s probably the most successful one…

    @Kempeth:
    Currently cards properties aren’t modifiable. For a given game, all cards share the same set of properties although you can leave some empty.

    @Indy:
    Beta 2 gives you access to all the stuff I personnaly use to manage my test games. Which means: very little and rough stuff. You will be able to import your own games into OCTGN, but you’ll have to create those definitions by hand.

  22. The Cube is the funnest MTG Variant in Existence Says:

    Someone please please make a submodule for MTG that lets us play the Cube format with OCTGN.

    The cube is the greatest MTG variant ever created. It’s a multiplayer draft composed of 500 of the most broken cards ever printed. And it’s insanely fun.

    Read the rules here…

    http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/article/9975.html

    Some more chatter about it here…

    http://forums.starcitygames.com/viewtopic.php?t=303767

  23. Indy Says:

    @Jods:
    Is the .yap file created after O2 digests the .o8g file? I tried to modify the Blue Moon o8g file and that file didn’t work (caused the app to crash). I duplicated one of the context menu commands (random dice roll, different menu caption). I assumed that the .o8g and the .yap are dependant on one another.

    I know you’ve addressed this in the past, but what sort of documentation will be available to help us create game files? There is limited functionality in Blue Moon (no tapping for example), so how will we know what commands we can use in our game files (and how do we know exactly how to use the commands we can see)?

    I can’t stress how awesome O2 is turning out to be; I’m just trying to get a headstart on creating game files.

  24. jods Says:

    Indeed the yap files digests everything about the game (.o8g and .o8s as well). It’s a database, e.g. to quickly find a card by its id.

    It is strange that your modification made the game crash, tough. I should simply have been invisible (I think).

    The .o8g and .o8s are kept on the disk and used because of the ressources they contain (e.g. images).

    There isn’t much documentation, at the moment anyway. I can help you but you’ll have to figure most of the stuff out from examples. I will make my definitions available.

  25. Michael Freeman Says:

    I’ve been keeping up with your Octgn .net program and it really seems to be coming along. It looks beautiful and seems to have all the features the previous Octgn had with several additions. I can’t wait to try it out.

    Could I possible make one suggestion. How about an option where, when you draw a card, it could be upside down or rightside up (If you don’t have it already). I know it sounds like a weird suggest but an example of that being used would be on tarot cards. Anyway, can’t wait to see the final release.

  26. jods Says:

    Indeed, it’s a strange suggestion. If I understand correctly, you want to be able to rotate cards in your hand, right? I am not even sure if the current version allows you to do it or not!

    I *think* both flipping and rotating a card in hand is possible, and I *think* rotating may not be very usable due to the way the hand is laid out (there is one incorrect assumption in the layout algorithm if you tap the card).

  27. Michael Freeman Says:

    That option isn’t in the current version. What I actually meant though, was a shuffle that randomly makes the drawn cards come into your hand upside down or rightside up as you draw them.


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