Targetting continued

Well, just as I promissed last time I wanted targetting with arrows in 2.0. Now you can: you just have to drag your mouse from one card to another with the middle mouse button pressed.

Let me show off a little bit:

Arrow targetting

Needless to say, it’s very, very sweet. Especially the curved effect, which was a bit hard to create.

The mouse doesn’t hit the arrows, i.e. you click through. I think it’s best so, otherwise it becomes a bit awkward to select cards. But this creates a little problem. Since you are unable to select an arrow, how do you remove/hide it? I choose that if you middle click on a card with outgoing arrows, they all disappear. I think it provides the best use cases. Also, any time a card changes group all its targetting are hidden.

I would like to add that the “single” target showed in my last post is available in every group. You can target a card on the table, but also in your hand, your opponent’s graveyard, and so on. Arrow targetting, on the other hand, is restricted to cards on the table. It kinda works with other groups of cards, but there are a few trouble spots, which I can’t sort out easily. I think that arrow targetting everywhere isn’t worth the effort – at least currently.


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28 Comments on “Targetting continued”

  1. Kendal Robbins Says:

    Once again, incredible work. Thank you for putting so much time into this.

    I and many other people have been waiting for this program for over an year though, and it always seemed like its release just around the corner.

    Is there anyway we can help get it released faster, possibly in time for Christmas?

    Would you be willing to take on additional coders. Coders that would program exactly what you want them to work on, just to get the last few things done so that the program could be released, maybe accept paypal donations for your hard work (god knows it’s a a better deal than Magic Online). I can’t stand the though of it being another year before the program gets released. Anything we can do to help you with it, just ask for, and I guarentee many people will be more than eager to help.

    Also, I was wondering if it has built in mechanics set up to do Draft or play Emperor and things like that?

  2. Kendal Robbins Says:

    P.S. If you prefer, we can ask around on magic forums for the best coders and get them to help. I am sure that even those people who can’t code would be eager to help find more coders in the community to get your incredible program out into the world.

  3. Michael Watkins Says:

    All this work you’re doing on it is great. Thank you!
    I’d like to point out though that everyone who’s waiting for OCTGN 2 to come out probably wouldn’t mind a less-than-perfect release. IMO You don’t have to add all the amazing features we would all love on your first go.
    Keep up the good work!

  4. Wihl Says:

    Looks great, keep up the good work!

    ….Looking forward to the release within a couple of months *cough* Oh well, I hope πŸ˜›

  5. jods Says:

    I feel frustrated, too. So much I’d love to see people play with OCTGN 2.0.

    If only this was my job I could spend one month on this and it would be completed – and awesome.

    Unfortunately this is not my day job and I’m doing my best to find a bit of time to code OCTGN 2.0. A few people have volunteered to help with the coding – especially since I gave the link to the sources – but nothing concrete has been done yet.

    As long as I’m posting it means progress is made. I would love to put out an early alpha in 2007, but it may not happen. We’ll see. Anyway I can tell that 2008 will be the year for the full, complete, official 2.0 release.

  6. Wihl Says:

    What is it that you need to finish before a release can happen? It just looks so finished when all you have to go by is the pictures πŸ™‚

    And btw, if a card is targeted by an arrow, and the owner of the targeted card moves the card – does the arrow follow the card or does it disappear?

  7. AR Says:

    I asked this in the prior article – what card game are these cards being used as examples from? ARE they from a card game at all? Id like to know, they look pretty interesting.

  8. jods Says:

    Yes, I saw your comment in the previous post. You posted it yesterday. I try to answer all questions, but it may take a bit longer than a few days. The game is Blue Moon. It’s a simple 2 players game, which I use – amongst others – for the tests. The card pictures are very sweet, indeed.

    Of course I show what is done and not what’s left to be done. My TODO list for OCTGN 2.0 is unending, really.
    Before the first alpha release I want:
    – a “random” feature. So that one is able to roll a die, flip coins, or randomly discard a card.
    – a “nicer” log. Currently the game logs all “fundamental” operations. A lot of the log is ugly and doesn’t always make sense to the game. E.g. I would rather see: “jods takes a mulligan”, rather than “jods moves ‘Card’ to his library. [repeat text 7 times] jods shuffle his library. jods moves ‘Card’ to his hand [repeat text 6 times]”.
    – handle turns. Currently there is no handling of turns. I don’t even speak about turn structure, just basic turns.
    – polish. Since this will go out to many people I have to make sure things are nice, stable and consistent.

    This would make the game very usable. But many other features will be added for the first beta. E.g. creating tokens.

    About the arrow targetting: when you move cards around, the arrows follow the cards. They even move with the card animations (if any), which is very sweet.

  9. AR Says:

    Thanks a bunch. Btw, Great Job on Octgn 2.0 thus far. Like many others, I also can’t wait for this.

  10. Aggersborg Says:

    Hi – Nice work again πŸ™‚

    When I play with the current OCTGN I foten need to respont on my opponents play actions. Is the going to be a respond button (like the button for end of turn plays)?

    PS. I can’t wait for the new OCTGN πŸ™‚

  11. How much do you make in a month jods? If we can raise that amount of cash would you be willing to take a few weeks off work and finish this? I’d be willing to donate a bit to getting this done.

    Thanks for all,

  12. Just another thought. The worst part of the current system is finding players. Any thoughs on organzing a website based on a Player Lounge for OCTGN? I’d be willing to create one/host if interested further down the line.

  13. Related to my last post.

    This Account Has Been Suspended
    Please contact the billing/support department as soon as possible.

    I feel this new 2.0 app deserves it’s own house!

  14. Gerrard Roberts Says:

    Just making sure, but this program is designed to be as intuitive and easy to use as Magic Workstation right?

    I’ve tried OCTGN and couldn’t for the hell of me figure out how to use it. And I’m not a open source newb either. I used linux almost exclusively, and I still couldnt’ figure it out.

    So I’m really hoping that OCTGN 2.0 will be much more intuitive and straightforward.

    Thank you again, keep up the fantastic work.

  15. jods Says:

    The “end of turn” functionnality will be present in 2.0, yes.

    I hope you were joking about how much I make in a month! I don’t think you would find enough money for OCTGN to be able to raise that amount… πŸ˜‰
    About finding players, this is a completely different effort. I am currently focusing on the game client. Although I have ideas to help people find opponents, I am not considering it at the moment. You mention cardfloppers. This site has been down for a long time and we are trying to build a new community at

    I’d like to say that I hope the community support will get better when 2.0 is out and we can get more visibility.

    @Gerrard Roberts:
    I can’t speak about MWS because I never played with this client. But one of the goals of 2.0 is to be more user-friendly.
    I think 1.x is too confusing for new users. It has been confusing for me at the beginning, and I’ve read comments from players, who have dropped OCTGN for this very reason.

    I hope you will find 2.0 a lot more intuitive and easy to use. Any comment during the beta is welcome and I would make changes where appropriate.

  16. Nok1 Says:

    If the source is the source on sourceforge, then very nice job, I’ve looked over the SVN rep. briefly. In any case, I was wondering why not make the arrow drawing routine it’s own class with references to the “starting” card and the “ending” card. That way you would also be able to handle events with the arrows.

    PS: What version of VS/Mono are you using?

  17. Discord Says:

    Great work as always.

    Taking a little hiatus on my little CCG what with NaNoWriMo looming, but back to working on it from December 1st.

    Hopefully we both finish our big projects around the same time. πŸ™‚

  18. Michael Watkins Says:

    What file format are decks, cardsets, and etcetera going to be?
    This seems like it would be a good use of XML.

  19. jods Says:

    Yes, the source is commited at sourceforge.
    The code is split in 2 classes.:

    There’s one which knows how to build an arrow shape based upon two points. I’m using points and not directly cards because there also is the scenario when the arrow tip follows the mouse cursor (during the drag-and-drop targetting itself).

    The second class is an Adorner. This is the WPF technology which enables me to render over other elements, while keeping the arrow attached to its source. The adorner also binds to the target card (or the mouse cursor) so that the arrow is updated at all times. The rendering core of the Adorner computes the 2 extremities and delegates the work to the previous Arrow class.

    Thanks for your compliments about the code. I’m developing with VS 2008 / .NET 3.5.

    @Michael Watkins:
    All OCTGN native file formats (decks, games, sets, etc) are XML based.
    When the plugin system gets into the code it should be possible to introduce plugins to load other popular deck formats.


  20. Nok1 Says:

    Heh. I’ve been using ’05 pro for a while as it’s freely available to me, but I just went out and got the beta2 of C# express. Frustrating not to have native SVN support. In any case, I was wondering if you could provide me a location where I could get a sample game definition for testing purposes.

    I’ve been shadowing the project for a while, and have been a fan of octgn for a while πŸ™‚ back in the days of MTGP i requested original vb source as well.. we’ve sure come a long way. In any case, I figure I’d drop in and just shove any ideas I might have to you, perhaps write a little code for ya on the side.

    PS: Not sure if it’s a bug on my computer or if it’s a bug with VS08, but i’m getting 39 errors referencing the two DLLs that you include even though i obviously have them in my references to the project, and the project compiles successfully – yet still says that it cannot find the DLL. Also problems loading all XAML files, but I’ll get that figured out. I hate migrating Dev Env’s.

  21. Aggersborg Says:

    Is there going to be a “respond” buttom too?

  22. jods Says:

    But I’m open-minded. Can you precisely describe what the “Respond” button would do and how it should work? If your arguments are good enough I will create it.

    If you’ve entered your real e-mail address I will send you a mail later this week.
    To quickly address a few points:
    – VS is integrated with MS own source code repository, namely Team Foundation Server (TFS for short). There’s a plugin to add SVN support inside VS, called AnkhSVN or something similar. I don’t think it’s a good plugin and I prefer to work directly with TortoiseSVN (outside VS).
    – I don’t know about the references to the DLL. VS dynamically adds errors to the pane when you open files. This might be the trouble spot, see next point.
    – The XAML designer doesn’t support the full spec yet. I know I’m doing something with my resources which it doesn’t like. The consequence is that the designer is broken for the whole project. It’s unfortunate and I hope it will work better in RTM. In the meantime, as long as the project compiles without errors I’m fine. 😎

  23. Michael Watkins Says:

    I think aggersbord is asking for something that stops them from doing multiple things in succession until you choose to respond/pass. MTG-specific, I doubt that’s a good thing for OCTGN.

  24. Nok1 Says:

    Feel free to reach me at the email I listed here. Also I do use Ankh with 2005, but it doesn’t load in the ’08 studio. In any case I do have TSVN as well. Not a big deal. Whenever You get a chance though, go ahead and email me a sample game def. file.

    Oh and, out of pure curiosity do you write your XAML by hand or do you use BLEND?

  25. Joesnuffy Says:

    A respond button would be great.. but more in the sense that if a played wants to counter a card etc they hit a button on the GUI and a sound or such is played on both client machines.. or better yet a notice incase player doesnt have sound. This would be better than the setup of MtG online IMO because you wouldnt have to respond (allow) every card that came out.. just be ready to click the button if you have a counter or some other means to stop the card from coming out.

    The notice would just need to be a confirmation notice really.. that way the person knows not to show another card he might want to use on a creature that is about to be sent packing..

  26. jods Says:

    About the respond button:
    I don’t clearly see how this would be any different from typing “Wait” in the chat box? In that case I would rather add a generic shortcut messages, so that when you hit Ctrl+1, Ctrl+2, and so on, you send a recorded message of you choice. (So basically Ctrl+1 would be your “Wait” button).
    BTW this is just random brainstorming, I am not saying that I will add this. Though I might.

    Kind regards,

  27. Koryu Says:

    Because of the idea behind OCTGN (to let players do whatever they like as long as it’s allowed by the opponent and don’t restrict the actions by the client) I find it not good to implement the respond button in a blocking way. So that you have to click “Next” for every action of your opponent.

    I’m totaly with the solution of jods, to create shortcuts… or just a nice behaviour to your opponent, asking, if he wants to counter if you see, that he has blue mana or if you know (or don’t know) that (if) he has counterspells in his deck.

    So long,


  28. Aggersborg Says:

    I like what you are saying Jods. I have not tought of that! πŸ™‚ Maybe it could be possible make more “ctrl” + a nummer shortcuts.

    Out of my head I could use shortcorts for:
    “Respond – ok?”
    “I respond!”
    “At your upkeep”
    and maybe “Thinking :)”.


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